User talk:CompleCCity

"Are you talking to me? Are YOU talking to ME?"

- Marl

Welcome
Hi, welcome to ! Probably nobody has yet looked at your edit to the Gorion's Ward page, but someone will.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Erik the Mad (talk) 14:19, September 17, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Template: Item drops, Category: Item icons and Template: Image information
Hi there CompleCCity, yes I'm talking to you ;-)

Good job on locating the issues on IB:Image information, didn’t pay much attention to it before myself :-), and it seems the counterpart in FRW has been doing what you’ve suggested, but I have no solid coding skills to modify the related stuff, so feel free to do so if you know the drill, or I can leave a message to Faalagorn instead.

Icons with background have been there before I knew this site, and they’re mostly screenshots. However, imo original .PNG files extracted from NI are better fit for IB as all people will have different looking screenshots while original files preserve uniformity (and look shaper & better :). And if desired, we can always upload new files separately then move old screenshots we want to replace in IB to the Gallery section, like this one. Also, as you may already have noticed, original icons files with black shadows are usually larger than the ones without (not because of the shadows but the pure icon size), so it might be better to use the shadowed ones for both larger size and uniformity?

There’s another thing, template within a template will break the classic editor, in this case, using or "template:Item drops" in any IB will trigger the case, also the Item drops template isn’t portable yet. So what I’m suggesting for now is to type ToB(or add links like ToB if desired) and input item names as usual in creatures’ IB, then add the Items drops to the Creature’s IB below should you like it. Sorry for the inconveniences, and I really hope fandom staffs can fix this long-existing flaw asap.

In IB, the image on top is usually reserved for portraits, or for items, the large images in in-game description, while icons & codes are located on the bottom. There’re difficult cases such as creatures without portraits, and currently the in-game images of these creatures appear on top, while at the same time in-game images for items appear on bottom. We might just remove the in-game row from IB as people can always use to do it, or find another way to solve the problem.

If I missed something, do remind me in your next message :-)   Islandking (talk) 03:41, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

Islandking (talk) 14:59, October 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Thank you, and if you can, please try to make the template portable. Also, I’ve removed the usages of  “Template:Screenshot” with bot and modified “Template:Fairuse” based on FRwikia, so you may use the latter instead, for wider usage, such as videos.
 * 2) I’ll look into it later, as I recall there’re many different cases
 * Odd, try Defender of Easthaven, Wand of Frost pages instead, mine will say “Rich text editing has been disabled because the page contains complex code.”
 * Yes, item drops should be at bottom as the current item IB has the corresponding row at bottom, any top ones are likely done before the row was added. When you attempt to pick up items by clicking on the pile the dead creature drops, it has the 3 columns & 2 rows format just like the image you’ve shown me, and actually, attaching images in the “Items drops” row in IB might be a way to go, need more thinkings on this.


 * Alright, for shadowed icons, refer to BOW21, which is Darkfire Bow, the two icons are different in size, with the shadowed one larger. There're many cases as well, you may browse it as you please. Yes I understand the transparent case, but we might have to stick with the shadow because of how the game is built.


 * Islandking (talk) 15:06, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

By "chose a random entry inside the infobox (damage type) and added " I sssume you mean CE's source mode, which should work all the time. When I was mentioning CE, I was referring to its visual mode, try to reopen these two pages, you don’t need to edit anything, just try to switch to CE’s visual mode, you’ll get the same error message.

3x2 drop format should be constant in all versions. Islandking (talk) 15:46, October 6, 2017 (UTC)

Well that's new, here's what I see, the same as http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Classic_editor, so you may consider filing a bug report. Islandking (talk) 01:22, October 7, 2017 (UTC)

About classes page race order
Not sure which version you're playing but mine is EE v2.3 and it looks like this Islandking (talk) 15:24, October 6, 2017 (UTC)



About item drops
2x2 is party member’s inventory, 3x2 is the creature’s item drops :-)

I’ve been thinking, capturing the 3x2 in-game might do, but it has limitations, it could be much better if we can mimic the format and make each item linked to its article page, at the same time without using any template thus won’t break the CE’s visual mode, actually, your attempt at

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Dribben?oldid=73136

Is a very good start. Few things to improve though, such as the number stackable items could be shown in caption, and as of now, the links won’t work for some reason, it only link to the image itself, quite the opposite as the codes intend.

So combined with precious discussions,

|items                =

Roughly like that, as long as we can figure out a way to make the links work.

EDIT: Actually it can be easily done by adding link=   Islandking (talk) 02:16, October 7, 2017 (UTC)

Re:Editor choice
I already filed the bug report :-{, I didn't see notes on Help:Classic_editor which states "Due to some issues with Internet Explorer 11, the classic editor's visual mode is not currently available when using this browser." till just then...

Oh, you're talking technically, ~headache~ :-D, anyways, if switched to table, is it still a template that searched? What's the use of class in custom.css ?

Islandking (talk) 14:14, October 7, 2017 (UTC)

If its version in your sandbox shows good result, we might as well use that, there's also no real need to complicate .css, as I’ve seen in some sites, Final Fantasy wiki for example,  the common.css they made prevents VE from launching.

Islandking (talk) 15:03, October 7, 2017 (UTC)

Actually, your previous message has explained everything I wanted to know, what I meant to say in that sentence was “will it still be a template that can be searched” :-)  Islandking (talk) 15:30, October 7, 2017 (UTC)

Minor naming issue
Hi there CompleCCity,

I see you are updating area pages, it just occurred to me that would it be better if we rename “Category:World map icons‎”  to “Category:Area map icons”

For one, it’s likely we’ll have a BG3, in which there’s a possibility all areas will have icons, not just areas from world map.

Second, mostly for the naming consistency, since we already have “Category:Area maps”, so “Category:Area map icons” will be a nice fit.

Three, you can always build sub categories within “Category:Area map icons” to categorize world map icons, just like “Categroy:Baldur's Gate world map icons” you just created, though I’d recommend using the name “Categroy:World map icons in Baldur's Gate” instead, or even “Category:World map icons in BG”, because that’d be easy to group world map icons in SoD, BG2SoA, BG2EEToB, etc, at the same time avoid too many “Category:Baldur’s Gate XXXX”, which is one of the main reasons I initiated category rework on this site, what do you think? Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 03:43, October 9, 2017 (UTC)

Just a quick reply, actually you may keep uploading images using the current category, any changes in future I can easily rename them using bot :-)

Screenshot will be there for... screenshots? For licenses you may use Template:Fairuse for image & potentially audio, videos, etc,

Have to work, talk later :-)

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 04:17, October 9, 2017 (UTC)

Image sorting and more
Hello CompleCCity,

Your concept of “Map images” as parent cat might do, just need a little modifications: As of current wiki status, “Areas” are one of the main category types, alongside with “Creatures”, “Items” “Spells” “Abilities”, etc, so we might do the following:

And delete “Category:Screenshots”, more to be added & renamed, thoughts?
 * Area images
 * Area maps
 * Area map icons – world map icons, local map icons etc. go here
 * Area map note icons – smith note icons, shop note icons etc. go here
 * Area screenshots
 * Creature images
 * Creature portraits
 * Creature screenshots
 * Item images
 * Item artworks
 * Item icons
 * Item screenshots
 * Spell images
 * Spell icons
 * Spell screenshots
 * Ability images
 * Ability icons
 * Ability screenshots
 * Quest images
 * Quest screenshots
 * Wiki images
 * Wiki user and blog images‎
 * Wiki user talk and forum images
 * Wiki achievement images
 * Achievement images
 * UI Images
 * UI icons
 * Concept art
 * Affiliated media‎ images
 * Wiki achievement images
 * Achievement images
 * UI Images
 * UI icons
 * Concept art
 * Affiliated media‎ images
 * Concept art
 * Affiliated media‎ images

As for the naming, might be good to stick to “Whatever in BG: EE” “Whatever in BG II: SoA” “Whatever in BG II: EE: ToB” formations, in case we’ll have a “Category:Images by game” in future.

I’ve extracted MAPICONS.BAM from both BG1EE and BG2EE, have the new area icons, don’t have SoD icons though, I assume you’re playing classic versions?

Good job on the sand box, it’s certainly much better than before, may not need the “Information” row though, for unlikely more rows will be added to the template. I’m also thinking of dumping “Template:Image information” and creating a “Template:File information” instead, to extend its usage to audio & videos as well, this way the “Original designer / artist” row may need a slight modification to, I don’t know, “Author / artist / actor” maybe, any ideas?

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 11:26, October 9, 2017 (UTC)

Hail CompleCCity,

I’m not king, just a guy who loves video games :-), but I know you’re joking, it comes from an old game, islandking is actually a weapon name, and it’s a big fish :-D

Anyways, as you may have noticed, the draft I posted in your talk page mainly starts with the same word per group, ie, all under “Category:Area images” start with “Area”, I did this from my own experience that nearly all sites have different standard when it comes to category naming, and it’s often not unified, thus some similar categories with similar functions usually do not start with the same word, leaving the users’ guess which word should they type to get the desired result, which, mostly will result in failure as the one who built the category and the user are not the same person, and everyone has different ways of thinking.

Now back here, for example, if we don’t make all area images related categories start with “Area”, some user might miss, I don’t know “Map notes” maybe, because it starts with a different word, or even worse, randomly choose an inappropriate category which starts with “Area” and finish the edit.

I try to avoid that and at the same time provide conveniences (same word to for the same group) when adding categories, so I’ve named such, even if some names sound weird indeed.

Map icons and map notes are different things, the former is a "summary" of an area, like what an area look like in world map – world map icons, and potentially what they look like from local – local map icons; while map notes, as already named as such in game, is reserved for the custom pins, potential smith icons, inn icons you’ve mentioned.

The same goes for those that start with “Wiki”, actually, as it’s hard to really achieve a solid grouping, might as well separate all of them, “Wiki user profile images” ”Wiki user blog images” ”Wiki user talk images” “Wiki forum images”…

You brought a hard issue for “Achievement images” or “Game achievement images”, need more thinking on this one.

Agreed with item image naming. “Item description images” sure is much clearer than the vague “Item artwork(s)”

The question is, is there real need to separate ground icons and inventory icons, not to mention there’re also quickslot icons if we were to go extreme… considering many ground icons are the same, we might just give the info in the file name instead, like “Genetic sword ground icon.PNG” “Varscona inventory icon.PNG” “Varscona quickslot icon.PNG” and group them together under “Categoy:Item icons”

I guess “Icons” and “Screenshots” can stay, you’ve made a point they’re different ways of sorting, and it’s safe to have them.

I’m not sure I catch your meaning, if you mean “Images by game” is not useful, then maybe we shouldn’t have “xxxmap icons in BG” at first?

I still haven’t figured out how to use “Template:World map” :-P, should I upload the extracted icons under the name “xxxworldmap.PNG” and everything will be fine?

I don’t have an explanation about the “cat“ part and I doubt those rows other than the rows in your current sandbox have ever been used, but inform me if you find any. Yes I could replace the old information template with “File information” with bot, and I see you’re using the same words in data source as well, so that’d be a simple find/replace template name task for bot.

The category tree is a more complicated issue, in short, I’ve decided to go with Semantic MediaWiki search path, limiting the cat number, while waiting for fandom to finally reactivate SMW feature one day, maybe :-{

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 16:26, October 10, 2017 (UTC)

Hi there,

It seems EE have sneakily changed the name to “Map notes”, and given the situation, an intermediate way could be “Category:Area map notes”, omitting “icons” behind.

For some new items in EE, yes the quick slot icons are only the “shirked” version of their inventory counterpart, but for many pre-EE items, they’re “cut” & unshadowed version which look different, and there’re also cases such as Gram the Sword of Grief, see the icons in IB for EE version, see Gallery for pre-EEs.

Might change the name to “1hsword ground icon.png” “2hsword ground icon.png”, something like that.

Originally, I thought user profile & blog images are makeups people use to show their egos and characteristics, while talk & forum images are for communications with others. Have you considered a possibility for a single “Category:Wiki user images” to handle them all? The logic behind it would be user uploaded images for Wiki purposes only (and in comments), not-linked to articles’ main content, much like how “Category:Main category” handles it – “Category:Baldur’s Gate series” have content articles, while “Category:Baldur’s Gate Wiki” are related to Wiki affairs.

Speaking of which, out of curiosity, do you know why DAWiki limits user images (profile images I assume) to 10?

Alright, I’ll try to upload under correct names, hope I don’t screw up :-)

When all those sorting & licence stuffs are finally done, we can move on to modify policy accordingly, got a long way to go. Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 05:24, October 11, 2017 (UTC)

You can leave the task to me :-), for very likely EE will have sharper maps than the classic, and if I understand BD’s acclaims right, they’ve remastered a lot of existing maps as well. I’m actually waiting for a requested NI update due, in which all map notes & many other layered indications might be shown in the extracted PNG too. But I guess it won’t hunt to have plain maps at the same time, got to wait a bit longer though, for now there’s also SoD walkthrough matter to be attended, so many things to do :-)

I’ve uploaded some oversized maps, I’ve kept the image’s original resolution while scaled its quality to 90%, for afaik, the 90% nerfed image should be identical to originals in human eyes.

We might need some classic icons, as in Gram the Sword of Grief‘s case, classic icons are different from EE. Other than that, I think it’s safe to stick to the EE ones, which “may” be sharper than the classic, I’ll SLOWLY upload the bigger EE icons, which are usually shadowed ones, as discussed, on the pages I touch, moving the classics to Gallery, or might I ask why do you keep yourself away from EEs :-P ?

Yes, I know, I’ve played both DAO and DAII, but not DAI, yet, surely will someday :-) Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 10:46, October 11, 2017 (UTC)

Visual mode in CE
Hi there CompleCCity,

I just got reply from my bug report regarding to the CE and IE11 compatibility issue, seem the fandom staff has taken notice of our talk page and known the issue, she say if you may contact her if you have any more questions, just passing the message here :-)

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 05:45, October 12, 2017 (UTC)

About the code suffix...
Here's what I found while editiing.

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 10:33, October 13, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Back to answer
Welcome back CompleCCity :-)

Keeper -> NI is what I’m doing :-), but it’s (very) inconvenient most of the time, which is why I request the update, by which NI is all we need. (unless when we need save editing for in-game testing)

BDMISC47 seem to be the only case by far I’ve seen which share the same code, so might still be good to omit the suffix (for now), but I have to separate BDMISC47’s two pages, that’s for sure.

Afaik, the Gram the Sword of Grief case is rare at best, I even suspect the “new” icon I put there is a mod made which I’m not aware of, most icons should be consistent, and I’ll use EE to slowly replace them. As for items like Defender of Easthaven, the current solution is OK (I’ll probably replace the templates within IB though), so there’s no real urgent need for tapped IBs. We might need them for BG3, but I reckon by then a dedicated IB:BG3 item would be more likely to happen due to the vast differences between rule set in BG3 and 2nd rule from first two games.

Ah ha, don’t worry about it, that “fat” “ugly” line (which is the brush effect) can be turned off :-D, I guess we can toast on this matter, as the first setting I’d tune after getting hands on EE would be to TURN IT OFF :-)

EE has graphic enhancement, and you’ll notice the game load faster than the GOG classic due to the hardware optimism. To me, it’s the biggest selling point, you can totally ignore the new companions and imo SoD is an “OK” campaign, at least it deserves more recognitions than the many unexplainable criticisms thrown at it.

But I guess BD did hunt its own reputation by some VERY questionable moves, such as removing many exploits and play-styles, killing gameplay freedom and even deleting the classic version sale from GOG, and many people (including me) doesn’t like those deeds one bit. As a person, can’t say I like this company, but as a gamer, I’m quite neutral for I still have some hope they may come up with some better games in future.

So the choice is entirely up to you :-)

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 14:29, October 15, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Your edit on Larze
Hi,

I replaced, because templates within templates will break CE’s visual mode as we’ve discussed, same as Defender of Easthaven.

P.S: I could add links, but I see no real need for that.

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 02:24, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, VE can handle this, but VE and CE are two different editors, which is why wikia keep them both.

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 10:37, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Afaik, templates within template, references within image captions, or massive uses of  *  symbol are cases which breaks it, just try to find workarounds, like BG and that' it.

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 10:48, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

I thought you've already reproduced the issue, and in addition to the iamge I just shown on your talk page,  in case you haven't reproduced it, switch to firefox/chrome, don't use IE11, then try to edit Defender of Easthaven page using CE's visual mode.

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 11:04, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

I've contacted fandom staffs several times about this obvious flaw, and every time I get "will fix LATER" kind of responses... :-{

Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 11:40, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Grammar
Hi CompleCCity,

thank you so much for your message!

Yes, you're totally right! Thanks a lot for your grammar hint!

I generally know it but sometimes I'm mistaken....I'll try to check all these spots with the reward item anf fix it.

Gejadus (talk) 11:45, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Hi again!

You already corrected quite a lot of such mistakes!

Thanks a lot!

Fell free to go through the Black Pits II Walkthrough too and correct such grammar or spelling mistakes!

As a non native speaker I make mistakes in English unfortunately! Still learning English! I guess I'll do it for my whole life!

Gejadus (talk) 11:50, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Hi CompleCCity,

so you are a German as well?

Germans are everywhere! ;-)

Gejadus (talk) 12:55, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Hi CompleCCity,

ich spiele Baldur's Gate auch von der Zeit an, als es herauskam. Damals hatte ich, was ich weiss, ein Loesungshandbuch, und schaute gar nicht im Internet nach Loesungen. YiYa - ist das deine Seite? Nicht schlecht!

Ich spiele in meiner begrenzten Freizeit z.Zt. gerne Black Pits II. So ein Durchgang bis zum Kampf gegen die Gefluegelte geht schnel,l und man findet ne Menge ueber die verschiedenen Charaktere/Hauptdarsteller haeraus. Hab schon einiges dazugelernt. Das ist ganz prima fuer die Zeit, wenn man dann wieder Baldur's Gate II, EE spielen will.

Tschuess!

Gejadus (talk) 21:10, October 16, 2017 (UTC)


 * A short comment: No, I am not the author of or in any kind affiliated with YiYa's freie Seiten, a well written German walkthrough for the BG series from around 2,000 A.D. -- UserCCCSig.png -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 09:43, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

Hi CompleCCity,

thank you for your message!

Ok, let's stick to English! It's nearly the same to me except my grammar mistakes and some expressions/idioms. ;-) I'm used to speaking English.

I'm totally surprised that you don't have BG ENHANCED EDITION! It's great stuff! I wouldn't like to miss DORN and all his quests. This Black Pits II stuff is really good! When I bought BG II, EE for about EUR 20.- in Germany I just played the normal version. On German ebay you can get it right now for EUR 13,79 + free shipping! Finally after a long time I had a look at the Black Pits. To be honest I had NO expectations but now I really got into it and enjoy it alot. The HUGE ADVANTAGE of playing Black Pits II is that you find out lots about protagonist players within a really short amount of time ! It's phantastic! Although I played BG II,EE on level HARD before I learnt a lot by playing these Battles and different protagonist players in the Black Pits II. I can really recommend it!

So you're only playing Englisch versions. Where do you get them from? I have only German versions.

Looking forward to hearing/reading from you!

Gejadus (talk) 10:15, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

Hello CompleCCity,

of course for me is BG II (EE) the main game as well! But playing Black Pits II helps me a lot to find out more about characters and classes within a really short amount of time. Playing through Black Pits II takes me perhaps 5 hours. Playing BG II is hundreds of hours...

That's what I wrote at the end of my general Black Pits II Walkthrough:

"Final words: I don’t know anybody of Bioware or Beamdog. I just enjoy playing Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition I+II a lot in my spare time. I really hope that there will be a Baldur’s Gate III in the near future. Beamdog (Overhaul Games), you have the huge potential to create a game that will also become a Legend! Work hard on the story line (depth of the game, e.g chasing the mad Jon Irenicus - even through the Underdark), quests (e.g. Lavok's Sphere in Athkatla; owner of a Stronghold as a protagonist fighter; fighting along Drizzt Do'Urden against Jon's sister Bodhi; Shangalar - his hideout, the Twisted Rune building, can only be entered by using a special stone, a Rogue Stone), great items (e.g. Staff of the Magi, Axe of the Unyielding, Blackrazor), dialogues of the characters (e.g. Viconia or Jaheira can be romanced by male player character) (by getting ideas from the fans on the Beamdog Forum) and create a wonderful Baldur's Gate III! "

To be honest playing Black Pits II and playing new Solo Protagonist players is lots of fun! You get to know these characters/classes quite well! I already discoverd tons of new stuff what I can use and enjoy when playing BG II, EE again!

Gejadus (talk) 09:39, October 18, 2017 (UTC)

Hi CompleCCity,

alles klar! Hoffe, dass du nicht eingeschnappt bist!

Looking forward to seeing you or hearing from you again!

Gejadus (talk) 23:47, October 19, 2017 (UTC)

Staff of the Ram damage
Hi there CompleCCity,

Could you double check the staff's classic version in NI? In EE2, the extra 1d4 piercing damage was located within "Item ability 0", then its "Effect 0", if you can't find it, then I guess it's indeed a bug, will update the page later.

Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 16:23, October 16, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, EE has 4 effects, and I assume you’re playing the latest GOG version of the classic BG2?

I’ll update the page then.

Also I see you’ve swapped positions of Acquisition/Locations and In-game description, which may bring up a new topic: as of now, all item pages are Location first then description, but all wizard spells pages are description first then scroll location, which is inconsistency, not to mention quests pages are sort of “have to be” acquisition/location first, so what do you think, should we make them all location on top or…

Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 04:20, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

Header order and more
That’d be a hell lot to consider, guess we’ll need more time to sort the header order out, (there’s already a achievement or game achievement on the list LOL)  but two things:
 * 1) In-game description is needed, because it’s part of the item/spell, and we can’t put this section into IB, that’s for sure
 * 2) Though I prefer “Acquisition” too, sometimes “Location” serves as an nice indicator that the item is actually picked/looted directly from a location, while acquisition can cover more complicated cases, such as for quest rewards, etc, so we might use them both, depending on situations

I replaced the full name links from “Appear in” row in IB with abb because: <span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 11:03, October 17, 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) There’re items that can be found in all games, then I’ll just use “All Bhaalspawn saga games”, instead of “Baldur’s Gate xxx”….. you know the drill, a long list, especially when EEs are included
 * 2) There’re items found in SoA campaign only but not ToB, and vice versa, considering you cannot roam freely between those campaigns, we need to tell readers exactly which, and there’ll be an uneasy naming for EE verision: “Baldur’s Gate II: Enhanced Edition: Shadows of Amn” etc, the same reason I made some “ugly” looking category names such as “Quests in BG II: EE: ToB”

Another case about file.suffix
Just found The Winged (which is the boss of Black Pits 2) and her Dark Justice has the same OHBWING, given the case, I guess there'll be more on EE, so it might be same to reactivate the suffix?

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 01:40, October 20, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Spell Progression Tables
Sure, but not sure my .2da is entirely untouched by mods though, I have SCS changed HLA spells into special ability, just let you know in case that’d affect the table.

Good job on the new progression page, the only concern is the naming, since there’s already a “Experience Table”, maybe we should name it “Spell Progression Tables (wizard)” instead?

Also I recall there’s a Construction template, see if you like it :-)

MXSPLWIZ.2da:

2DA V1.0

0

1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9

1       1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0

2       2   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0

3       2   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0

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9       4   3   3   2   1   0   0   0   0

10      4   4   3   2   2   0   0   0   0

11      4   4   4   3   3   0   0   0   0

12      4   4   4   4   4   1   0   0   0

13      5   5   5   4   4   2   0   0   0

14      5   5   5   4   4   2   1   0   0

15      5   5   5   5   5   2   1   0   0

16      5   5   5   5   5   3   2   1   0

17      5   5   5   5   5   3   3   2   0

18      5   5   5   5   5   3   3   2   1

19      5   5   5   5   5   3   3   3   1

20      5   5   5   5   5   4   3   3   2

21      5   5   5   5   5   4   3   3   2

22      5   5   5   5   5   5   3   3   3

23      5   5   5   5   5   5   3   3   3

24      5   5   5   5   5   5   4   3   3

25      5   5   5   5   5   5   4   4   3

26      5   5   5   5   5   5   4   4   3

27      5   5   5   5   5   5   4   4   4

28      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   4   4

29      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   4

30      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   4

31      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   4

32      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   4

33      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   4

34      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   4

35      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5

36      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5

37      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5

38      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5

39      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5

40      5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5   5

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 15:32, October 20, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Some talk about game-play
Hi CompleCCity,

thank you for your message!

I'll answer you soon! I'm busy right now...

Gejadus (talk) 09:00, October 21, 2017 (UTC)

This and that, mostly about Spell Progression Tables
Hello CompleCCity,

A few other things first :-)

We usually add disambiguation suffix and leave a redirect link, e.g. “Energy Blades” ->”Energy Blade (disambiguation), see the Baldur's Gate (disambiguation) page.

I put “Companion Baeloth Barrityl is a sorcerer” not as a note, more as a piece of gameplay info because it affects players who want to play as a sorcerer in BGEE to reconsider their choice as there’s already a companion with the same class kit around.

About your recent project:

If you’re going to add more info other than tables, then “Tables” should be omitted indeed. Well actually, you and Faalagorn have different approaches about upper-casing :-), but I’m backing Faalagorn’s suggestion, standardizing the casing - upper for all articles (except for suffix, by, on, of etc) and lower for all categories. Yes I’ll rename some quest names (eventually) so that they’ll be the same as Journal shown in xxKeeper, which is upper-cased as well.

Take a look at “Mage”, which already has level-game dependencies in it, and integrated into the table, which is I’d suggest: to try to put all info (except the differences from PnP, etc of course) into table instead of leaving notes here and there like many other sites, messy… actually you’re doing quite well on implementing INT info into your table.

How to group your pages is much depending on how long the pages will be, if they aren’t too long, perhaps integrating them into “Mage”/”Class Name” page and upgrading its “Spell slots progression” section is much preferred, then we copy all sections from spell-casting classes and put them into “Spell Progression” page, replacing “Spell Progression Tables”, with both of them built for the same purpose:  to provide quick combinations between different classes for readers conveniences, which a “Spell Progression (disambiguation)” cannot do, nor will the disambiguation be so different from the “Classes” page where readers can find links to each class page and scroll down for its spell progression section.

I’ll leave minor twists (Italic, bold…) to you, my only suggestion (for now) on this matter is to make “–“ into blank cells, for this offers more contrast to the numbered cells, thus be more conspicuous to tell when mages start to gain slot from a certain level, see Mage#Spell_slots_progression

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 11:09, October 21, 2017 (UTC)

Actually, should be Total spell slots for mage because mage do not auto learn spells, sorcerers however, use Total spells AND total spell slots :-)

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 12:32, October 21, 2017 (UTC)

A quick reply:

''But I didn't like your re-ordering of width and rowspan – that seemed arbitrary. You don't have to show me that you're admin, here – I know of that.''


 * Which, unfortunately, is the auto-correct from Visual Editor, I didn't do the reordering, just add "slots" :-), where's the "show you admin part" come from ?

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 13:11, October 21, 2017 (UTC)

Well I mean instead of typing “–“, how about input nothing in there, see Mage table, which offers more contrast between numbered cells and “Nothing” cells, thus be more conspicuous to tell when mages start to gain slot from certain levels.

I mean if your content isn’t long, instead of dedicated pages, can you put the content to Mage#Spell_slots_progression etc. sections instead, thus updating the section, then we compile all spell progression sections into “Spell Progression” page, which has both the tables and extra info, replacing “Spell Progression Tables” which only has tables?

Those Mage and Mage (Baldur's Gate) pages exist before I know this site, I generally update the former, leaving the latter intact, there’re indeed things different between those two, which make it hard to make them into one page I guess, not sure how to deal with them though, the latter doesn’t attract much visits as the former anyways.

Which is a bit awkward, as you might’ve noticed, I usually put an extra bullet in “Gameplay” section, because I thought that’d serve as an indicator to tell people that the “Gameplay” section is never, and will never be finished, to encourage people and tell them where to put the insights…

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 13:45, October 21, 2017 (UTC)

Not a personal preference thing, but blank is better than “–“ when it comes to function, it tells which levels mage get spell slots in a more visual way, try to delete "–" and leave those cells blank and see it for yourself.

Alright, the extra bullet does give the section an unpolished feeling, well if it doesn’t work as it’s intended, I’ll delete it from the pages I touch in future.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 14:06, October 21, 2017 (UTC)

Hello,

Seeing how BG, and BGII have been widely used, can it be better to name black pits as BP and BPII ?

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 14:41, October 21, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, there’re TotSC, SoD, and ToB, but they’re generally expansions within the storyline of bg1 or bg2, there’s BGII instead of SoA because Erik wants to note the big 1 ->2 jump, and fortunately, this approach works quite well with BGII:EE. Although we always have to manually add (SoA) etc,  to make it like BGII:EE(SoA) to specify the exact campaign but in general, it works good. Technically, “T” should be added, but in reality, forum rarely use TBP, people just input BP, BPII/BP2, (though it raises the confusion between AI- BP series, which is a mod).

Are you sure Mage in BPII can reach lv33, never knew that myself :P

Will get to the spell progression topic later :-)

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 02:04, October 22, 2017 (UTC)

Hello CompleCCity

Your “Which layout to take?” is valuable for players who take on mulit- route, so what I have in mind is that instead of the text format, could you convert them into tables and update the current multi-classing pages, such as Fighter / Mage, (Fighter → Mage page is for the dual-classing).

Also in “Spell Progression (Tables)” page, we add a section for two class multi mages (Duo mage mulit-, Double mage multi- maybe, would not use “dual multi-classes mages” though, to avoid confusion) plus a section for triple class mage multi, then add the tables there.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 04:42, October 22, 2017 (UTC)

To elaborate, the “Spell Progression (Table)” page could look like this: This way, I’m not sure the table under Level caps of Spell Progression (wizard) is that useful because the spell level info has already been implemented into the above tables, also that table has the limitations of showing only mage’s spell level right now, which is a bit confusing… what about cleric, druid etc? Keep in mind the divine classes are equally treated in multi-classing.
 * Mage > Mage tables here
 * Specialist and Wild Mage > Their tables here (worth a subheading? Maybe only shown in caption)
 * Sorcerer
 * Dragon Disciple >same above
 * Cleric
 * Druid
 * Bard
 * Paladin
 * Ranger
 * Shaman
 * Two class multi
 * Has Mage > Mage progession tables for 2 class multis who has mage class in it
 * Has Cleric
 * Has Druid
 * Has Ranger
 * Three class multi
 * Has Mage
 * Has Cleric

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 07:08, October 22, 2017 (UTC)

Also consider merging the extended lv34-lv40+ into the main table since BG, BGII, ToB etc are already there.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 07:45, October 22, 2017 (UTC)

I see you set up a transclude in Spell Progression Tables, I have a question:

Will opening Spell Progression Tables page also open the transcluded Spell Progression (wizard) page in background, I asked this because I noticed a delay in opening and initiating editing on the page.

If yes, I'd suggest you retain from using the transclude due to the potential proformance impact once all transcludes were added.

If no, then go ahead, "Mage Spell Progression" is indeed a better name than the Spell Progression (wizard) suffix.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 12:39, October 22, 2017 (UTC)

About spell progression tables
I don’t mind, use the name if you see it fit :-)

Can't test it myself since I’ve removed my XP cap, I’ll ask post on BD forum, see if I can get some info.

Dedicated progression tables for multi probably is the best solution, and you don’t have to list all multi-class combinations:  The mage table for all two-class mage multis such as cleric/mage, fighter/mage is the same, so one table will do; same for cleric table of  two-class cleric multis such as cleric/mage, fighter/cleric. Plus the triple class multi tables which only need two (one is mage, one is cleric)

Gnome’s illusionist has the extra slot just like the sp mages, good call on that one, which probably worth an extra table.

You can always start working on tables, we’ll sort out the subheading things later, much easier than the tables :-)

I know why you add up to level 40, I just say you don’t have to split table into “basic” and “expanded” because we already have, , templates as indicators which levels can be reached for the corresponding campaign, and if you prefer, you can always add an overhead warning like “xxx levels cannot be reached without mod” etc.

I like your transclude idea, but like I said, if it raises performance issues, we’ll have no choice but to drop it, I’ll consult Faalagorn about it.

The naming of “Mage” or “Wizard” will depend on your page content. Wizard will have to include sorcerers, which is why they’re called “Wizard Spellbook” not “Mage Spellbook” because the book is also shared by sorcerers (actually, I think the better naming should be “Arcane Spellbook” because bards can also cast from it, but you get the general idea). Back to topic, as of now I see your page only has mage info, no sorcerers, and like the dnd naming "Class Spell Progression" (there’s no “Wizard” class in BG) so it should be “Mage Spell Progression” indeed, also not sure why you want to use suffix, afaik, there’s no (mage) suffix on this wiki. But again, I’ll have to wait for Faalagorn’s reply for the decision, at the same time, feel free to add more tables, we can always sort them later.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 16:41, October 22, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Drizzt's weapons
Sure, don’t hastate to assign me of any check of inconsistency between versions, I’d happy to do the dig (as long as there’s no mod involved), will get to you after work.

I usually just put "cleric" or "cleric" in it for the cleric class name, but I guess any ways will do, it's minor, as long as the info has been delivered, type what you see fit.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 01:23, October 23, 2017 (UTC)

Oh yeah, no wonder I had a feeling the name sounds familiar, it’s Ike  :D

Huh, the browser spelling correction sometimes are so bad…

Don’t worry, if there’s something I’m confident of myself, it’s I generally do things with reasons, I’ll explain them to you:

For IB:


 * Yes you’re right, the items IB template should be updated to reflect some changes, didn’t notice that, that part wasn’t written by me :-), I’ll probably do it tomorrow, hope I don’t mess things up…


 * There’s no default value, we should list differences between all existing games (can’t throw classic BG1 away just because it’s 20 years ago) and I can’t think of a better approach of doing that other than listing by the order of BG franchise release numbers (BG1 on top, BG2 below)


 * Yes, your formatting of all those game indexes emulate templates very well, I just don’t see the need for that many links as the ”Appears in” row already covers them. But if you prefer, I can add links back then no problem. The Classic versions (yes should be lower case)/ Enhanced Editions are different story, whose two are… hmm… abbreviations of the game title abbreviations, otherwise I’d have to input BGTotSCBGIIToB for Classic versions; BGEESoDBGIIEE(plus potentially BPBPII for other items) for Enhanced Editions. Does it break consistency? Maybe, but I was just trying to limit the number of game indexes in IB, or you have better ways to cover all info in a concise way?


 * Armor Class: -2 bonus is the in-game description’s format, planned to add link to Armor Class, forgot that afterward, good find.


 * Due to NI lists alignment requirement the same place as “Unusable by”, it’s better we do the same. “Other requirement” is reserved for req which is hard to be grouped in any other req rows, such as drow equipment, which require the wielders to be underground.

For rest of page:
 * Like I said before, we have to distinguish SoA, and ToB because we can’t roam freely between the two. As Icingdeath and Twinkle can only be obtained in SoA, never in ToB, we have to show that info so people know they can only use the two swords in ToB by continuing a SoA save. Bearing that in mind, will the plain or  templates do the work? No, ToB perhaps, but what about items be obtained ONLY in EE2’s ToB, or classic SoA? See? Here’s how (ToB), (SoA) come in place, the very same reason I made those “ugly” looking categories like “Items in BG II: EE: SoA”.


 * Sometimes we need to show “General description” (which is NI naming) as they’re quite unique, e.g. Durlag's Goblet, or Pantaloons, and imo putting “– General description” or “- Identified description” at end of quotes like someone’s saying isn’t proper, so I made them as they’re now. Or if you can show me some examples that suggest we put “- Game name” “- XXX description” the same way as “- Julius Caesar” I’d be happy to change that.


 * EE has changed it to +3, likely an inconsistency or mistake for classics versions. I can’t find where it suggests it’s 3+2=5 in the FR article link. Can you show me where the formula is? Also remember 2nd rule is never BG, even their time system (round, turn) are different. In BG, one possible route would be Twinkle is considered both shield and a sword, thus adding the bonus from both, but even if it’s the way, as all shields have at least 1 bonus to AC by default, it should be +1, thus 3+1=4 not 5, either way that’s a dangerous speculation.

It’s midnight in my timezone, all agreeable changes I’ll do tomorrow :-), will also check your comment again tomorrow as I might've missed something.
 * Which is the almost the same way how companion pages handle the character’s appearances, before those pages are arranged, there’re many “Baldur’s Gate xxxx” in pages like Dynaheir, Imoen, etc, basically 5, or 6 full names on the first paragraph, and as you can imagine, it’s neither aesthetic nor accurate. But I guess Drizzt may be cool with full names as his appearances are few, I’d keep the same format for consistency, but if you still want to change that, you can change back to full names, however, please find a way to indicate exactly which campaign he appears in BG2EE, SoA, or ToB, as explained above.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 16:44, October 23, 2017 (UTC)

Inappropriate comment on Romance page has been deleted, thanks for the patrolling CompleCCity.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 02:11, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Some talk about game-play – now really "re"
Hi CompleCCity,

it's me again.

I would have lots to say but just a hint for now. How you can benefit from the Black Pits II?

Look! I've played BG I perhaps 10-15 times in my life; BG II perhaps 10 times; Throne of Bhaal till the end perhaps 3-4 times. It's really great but I got a little bored on level 'Coe Rules' - too easy. So I started playing on level Hard.

Because it takes so much time playing through BG II, - perhaps about 200 hours -  it's hard to realize finally that you chose the wrong Protagonist. - Of course with having a Paladin a Protagonist you can't do much wrong. It's a really good choice. The Black Pits II give you the opportunity to figure out lots about your Protagonist before playing the Protagonist in BG II for lots of hours. Within 1 hour the Protagonist has alreached 3 000 0000 exp. points in the Black Pits II. So You reallt get an idea within a short amount of time if you like this kind of Protagonist. So you like to play a Paladin. Black Pits II gives you the opportunity to figure out in a really short time if you want to play a pure Paladin, a Chevalier, an Inquisitor, a Wizard Slayer etc ....I just recently discovered how powerful monks are thanks to the Black Pits II! They are killing machines, slaughter houses on high levels! In the beginning they are pretty weak but on high levels nearly unstoppable! When I played BG II I always thought Rasaad is weak. It's true for the beginning but later the monks are unbelievable strong.

I learned tons of stuff about characters and classes and their skills and abilities and also their enemies within a short in the Black Pits II. I'm now pretty familiar with Mages and Sorcerers. I learned lots about them here what would have taken me hundreds of hours in BG II.

So when I play BG II again - and that's MY GOAL (Black Pits II are not my goal or purpose) - I have much more knowledge and can enjoy the game much more because I know how to play certain Protagonists and classes much much better!

Just some thoughts.

Gejadus (talk) 10:06, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

Exclamation mark > !
Hi Islandking and CompleCCity,

I'm an excited chess player although I don't find to play this wonderful game right now. It's also a huge effort to play chess!

In chess you can set after certain moves one exclamation mark, even two or for great awesome moves even three!

That's why!

Doesn't matter! I can only use exclamation marks on my Walkthrough page! ;-)

I'll cooperate!

Gejadus (talk) 22:39, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Articles for mod only creatures?
What do you think, I’ve been thinking of making a more detailed mods subcategories based on their functions, much like how Big World Setup, the current active mod manager handles them:

Mod managers

Big mods

Restoration mods

Fixes mods

Creatures mods

Quests mods

Items mods

Tactical AI mods

Kits and tweaks mods

Visual and audio mods

Source browsers and editors

Copy their readme there, and add an overhead message to all mod pages to notice readers this page is about mod content… But that didn’t answer the question did it? Well I guess the pages can stay, there’re a lot content in large mods that are hard make them to be present on a single page should those info be added one day, we can create something like “Mod elements” or “Mod sections” (etc names) to hold those pages, like the current “Walkthrough sections” so that they don’t appear on the “Mods” parent folder.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 10:43, October 25, 2017 (UTC)

Just use these quotation marks in hope of making the words inside to stand out :P

Sometimes mod content can be merged into vanilla page, such as Sword of Chaos, it’s almost the same as your “Mod-related” idea, which I think is viable. No change to the original category & no mod cat added to those pages.

Sometimes it’s better to make dedicated pages like The Kidnapping of Boo, but I’d only add “Mod elements” cat to them, and only add mod cat to all other dedicated mod pages.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 12:46, October 25, 2017 (UTC)

Hi there,

Is there a way to make the assigned cat from IB not be implemented into the page, like no "Creatures" cat be added to the page using the Creature IB? :-)

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 13:00, October 25, 2017 (UTC)

Hello CompleCCity,

Initially, I made the cat tree like this in hope of Wikia.Inc may some day update Media Wiki thus activate its Semantic Media Wiki search feature, as Faalagorn made me see it, in which e.g, if readers search Long Sword + Items in BG, they’ll get the list of long swords that appear in BG, isn’t that awesome, using very few cat to cover many possibilities, like I want to see who’re the elven lawful evil hostile mages in ToB, I just combine those key words and boom, which the current cumbersome cat system in wikia can’t do.

But I also have doubts if that’d ever happen in wikia, seeing how the responses from the company has been using the excuse of being short of technical coverage to prevent the possible memory leak… that is why I’m slow at applying new category trees to this wiki, to wait.

I know exactly what you mean by a clean cat tree, that’s the example from Elder Scroll wikia, like  Axe of the Unyielding only has 2 cat: Axes in BG II: ToB, Axes in BG II: EE: ToB. So the auto-categorizing wouldn’t be needed at all.

Seeing the options you've provided, the solution for the mod pages is easy, to omit AC, because even in SMW we can always manually add Items, Creatures etc if needed.

What's the real headache is the above dilemma, I’m currently using the SMW cat tree on a non-SMW site hoping for the vague possibility of a update which may never happen, and the longer I wait, the more I feel there’ll never be SMW here. Shall I abandon the illusory hope and go for TESWiki style, but dumping the current cat tree will make the amazing key words search in future (if any) theoretically impossible, also ending up with tons of redundant cat... Are you familiar with SMW, and as an editor who’s been active much longer than me, do you have any suggestions on this matter?

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 14:24, October 25, 2017 (UTC)

Always had a feeling you play a bigger role on wiki ;-)

The AC might not be needed, I can categorize all pages with the proper CAT manually and/or with bot should we find a proper CAT tree solution. I really hope fandom can implement SMW search, fast, that’d the decision much easier to make. I’ll also ask Faalagorn’s opinion once he finished RL (hopefully).

For now, AC is perfectly safe for removal (temporarily) on this wiki as majority content has already been added, save for ToB, SoD ones, which I’m currently doing :-)

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 01:53, October 26, 2017 (UTC)

About the transclusion
Hello CompleCCity,

Hereis the answer I get from central forum, which explains why I got the delay, what do you think, there’ll be 14+ (roughly calculated) transclustion tables in Spell Progression page. I wouldn’t recommend to do it, but I have no obligations If you insist, but would you update the corresponding class pages (Mage, Druid, Fighter/Mage) instead then make transclustions to SP page from those pages?

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 12:06, October 26, 2017 (UTC)

Couldn't find it in preview, do you spot one from Special page:

but the delay shouldn't be caused by performance as Saftzie explained.

Subpages is perferred, because creating templates will... make people who're not familar with table codes (like me) hard to edit them :-)

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 12:42, October 26, 2017 (UTC)

Haven’t paid much attention to the special page before I was given the admin tools, so I post the screenshot in case it looks different when viewed from normal accounts.

Afaik, templates can only edit in source mode, but I always use visual mode or visual editors when making tables, also there may be others like me. :-)

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 13:06, October 26, 2017 (UTC)

Please make it to subpages just in case :-)

Top of the week from my view:

1. Gejadus 60 contributions

2. Croninlol 9 contributions

3. Aznxknight 1 contribution

4. Jonathonjones 1 contribution

Wouldn't surprised to see it like this considerring even lists from Insights are not accurate :-{

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 13:27, October 26, 2017 (UTC)

Ike's opinion
Three things to consider:

The BGEE symbol isn’t very distinguishable from classic BG symbol, or ToB, they’re similar skull style. (btw the BGIIEE icon you used should stand for classic SoA instead)

How large the symbols will be? From the samples you made, they’re a bit small (especially for tablet users), but will the larger ones fit well into IB?

Don’t forget our old friends: BGIIEE:SoA, BGIIEE:ToB, how to separate those campaigns with icons?

I guess this game is a very special case compared to other game series which can easily be transferred into icons, it’s only getting more complicated after EEs were introduced.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 10:15, October 27, 2017 (UTC)

Faalagorn's opinion
I actually like the icons! They are more clearer for me, especially when grouped together near each oher, easier to read than existing text. The size is easily tweakable, as MediaWiki handles resizing the images. The tooltips are still labeled BG:EE and so on, so it should be clear, and if someone blocks the images (globally on browser or via some ad-blocker rule), the alt text should display + the link still points to the same attributes. There may indeed be confusion about the vanilla and EE editions, though all the campaigns did get an unique icon – including both Black Pits. For mobile, there is actually a more severe issue with the existing et. al. templates – they are incorrectly parsed and when I tried to access for example the companions page on my phone, it is showing an extra newlines in and after the template, each time the template is used. I can attach a screenshot later on. Seeing we never got any report about this bug here though, may mean we don't have much mobile views anyway, at least among the contributors :). Also, it should be kept in mind that icons are often used in such places, be it other wikis or our  template.

P.S. Since I was AWOL for the past few weeks or so, I never had occasion to welcome you CompleCCity; welcome on board, nice to have new editors in here :). It may take me a while to take a look of what has changed here, and I'm currently having a break from playing BG:EE (planning to return soon-ish though), so feel free to point me on things if some kind of opinion is needed from my side in the meantime!

—Faalagorn☎/✓ 15:45, October 27, 2017 (UTC)

Ike's opinion (2)
Some candidates I’ve extracted from NI:

Update:

1, And you can extract classic icons without glow for classic campaigns, icons should be around LOGOXX.bam

2, We also need to cover cases such as Wand of Frost, where "BG" there actually stands for BGTotSCBGEESoDBP, "BGII" stands for BGIIToBBGIIEEBPII. We might need customized some icons here, ideas?

Update:

3, Also need to consider pages with different content between pre-EE and EE, like Poison Weapon, not a good example but that’s the gist, and many spells function differently in between versions. If you have the skills in image editing, you can cut the lower portion which contains Enhanced Edition in

and make it into icon to stand for EE. For classic versions, might crop Baldur’s Gate from

. Or you have better substitutes ?

Update:

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 05:37, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

cCC's opinion
Thanks for the welcome, Faalagorn! And feel welcome yourself on my talk page!

Actually I intended to answer right after you, but then came Ike – and presented stuff to work with already, despite having so many concerns … :)

Let me tell you, I share these concerns. But I also think, there are ways to evade them.

The size I used in my examples on your talk pages (see User talk:Islandking or User talk:Faalagorn) is 14px, which – for a circular icon – would mirror the regular font size in height and width, though reduced per  to (I think) 80%. Have in mind that this is the width of the icon – non-circular ones, like the one used for BGII:EE, have then a larger height than 14 pixels.
 * About icon size

Surely we can use 16px instead, or even more – that depends on how distinguishable the icons are in the end.

I took my examples from those icons used in the userbox templates. You find a good overview of them on Buttercheese's user profile.
 * About icon choice

In the classic games' files there unfortunately is no LOGO*.bam, but they are contained in other files (can't recall the exact name right now). I've already extracted the one from BG, which is smaller than some already upped icon here, but I think that one is scaled. For TotSC there is no official and unique icon, we have to use the one from the official guide (already used in the userbox).

Which leads us to …

A note to Faalagorn: I only can speak from a classic point of view – I don't own the enhanced editions, yet.
 * About differences between games and add-ons, and abbreviations

Okay, we have BG and TotSC, and for certain things we have to distinguish between them. Also we have SoA and ToB, and have to distinguish between them. There's no need of discussion about SoD, BP1 and BP2. But: Do we have to distinguish between BG:EE and TotSC:EE? And are there any differences between SoA:EE and ToB:EE? Or could those simply be summarized as BG(2):EE? To elaborate this further: if an item only appears in TotSC, does it then generally appear in BG:EE? If a creature only appears in ToB, does it then appear in the general BGII:EE? Or only in ToB:EE? (Is there still a choice between both campaigns when starting the game?)

A list, a row of icons looks better than that listing of letters in your second topic, Ike. ;)

In general we should keep away from this. Customizing copyrighted images from the game files might break copyright laws (not sure about this), and also might lead to contributors thinking "ah, that's not the original file, I have to re-up this …"
 * About icon customization

But chosing the icon from a game guide already is some sort of customization. And altering satuation, brightness and contrast of the cBG and BG:EE icons might be necessary to make them more distinguishable. Perhaps the same for SoA and SoA:EE …

(Yes, the glow should be removed as well …)

So much about my thoughts, yet. Will come back to this later …

I'm not sure, I've understood your third topic, Ike. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 10:59, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

A quick reply from Ike
We don’t have to separate BGEE and BGEE:TotSC because the content are merged together and can be freely accessed anytime in BGEE. (eg. From Nashkel to Durlag Tower)

However we have to separate SoA, ToB, BGIIEE:SoA, BGIIEE:ToB because as already mentioned, these campaigns are NOT transferable, which is different from the above case (take a look at some "Items in XXX" categories)

No, I’d insist keeping EE icons glow and classic icons not glow because that’s the way to distinguish them. Eg. classic SoA’d be the same as BGIIEE:SoA just without glow, etc. Also as you might’ve noticed, BGEE ones are glowing red while BGIIEE are yellow, which are the additional ways to show differences in visual.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 11:34, October 28, 2017 (UTC)

Update (1) from Ike
My friend has helped me made some desired icons, all are cropped from NI extracted files. I’ve updated the tables above to reflect some changes, what’s left are classic icons.

A side note: once icons replace the texts, we’ll have to use BGII:SoA+BGII:ToB, two icons to stand for classic BGII; BGIIEE:SoA+BGIIEE:ToB both to stand for BGIIEE. But I guess that’s the same way as BGEE+BG:SoD, and SoD is actually a part of BGEE, if you consider BGEE as BGIIEE:SoA, then BG:SoD is its BGIIEE:ToB. Now it makes me hungry for a real expansion to BGIIEE which tells us what happens after the throne battle, there’s already a mod for it :-)

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 03:15, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

Just a note
I'm working on the classic icons, but as there's no LOGO.bam it takes some time to find the best one … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cCContributions -- 15:03, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

Left a reply on Template talk:Infobox item :-)
Didn't notice it till just then, and yes, The Surgeon page is perfectly fine.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 13:41, October 29, 2017 (UTC)

Re: CE again?
No need to be sorry :-), that is what fandom should say to us contributors :D

What special apostrophes?

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 12:06, October 31, 2017 (UTC)

It may be caused by a “redirected back” - before I do the redirect, the current page is actually a redirect page to the now deleted page.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 13:08, October 31, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Comments are talk pages
User talk page and article comments are technically different, the former can be edited by anyone, while the latter is reserved for the poster and admin only, which I guess is fandom’s decision for reasons, and the words I cut aren’t appropriated. But I get your meaning, next time I’ll try to contact the contributor first, and delete it if I receive no replies in short time lest people will begin to see it.

Thanks for the reminder, managing wiki is a new thing to me, I welcome your advices from experience.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 11:57, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

Charisma page edit

 * The charisma of the party member who's doing the talking (initially) is taken into account.

Actually, this only applies to dialog, for store purchasing however, should only count the party leader's cha (haven't tested when the leader is in a different area though), both of the info has already been stated in the table below.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 10:54, November 4, 2017 (UTC)

Interesting :-), never noticed EE changed that, will edit the page to show version differences.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 13:43, November 4, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Classes and … schools?
Just as Fireball is Evocation school which evokers enjoy ST advantages, Dragon's Breath (spell) is NONE school which NONE-school-ers enjoy the ST advantages, as the Ward with most class kits are NONE-school-ers, it just means class kit characters are much stronger than the unkitted characters.

NONE is how it's written in NI, and when it comes to funtion, I usually forgo aesthetics.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 11:59, November 5, 2017 (UTC)

This is actually a long-existing bug just recently get excavated, the admin of BD forum has already passed the report to the dev team so it's likely to be fixed in the next EE(2.5?) patch.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 12:41, November 5, 2017 (UTC)

Your profile sig
I'm shocked to see the condition you mentioned on your profile page, I hope it will improve so that you may continue the wrok on wikis you care for, I also wish this wiki can be added to your favorite list.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 14:14, November 8, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry if my choice of words is not approperated, not good at it.

Yes, it’s worth the consideration, rearranging your time table may help, life is bigger than wikiiing, spend it to cover more things.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 14:59, November 8, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Oh, oh ...
You mean your edits make items IB non-portable? I've encountered the same issue and reported to fandom staffs, it's a bug, seems to happen to Item IB especially on this site, I suspect it’s caused by the “format” code, because item IB is the only one here that’s been using this code (another reason I’d like to stick to IB Builder, less function, but less issue). The solution I know is to fake edit it after some time, usually one day when I reported the issue, but now 2 hours or so seems to be enough, not sure if fandom has changed that, also odd that on my end this IB is still portable.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 14:24, November 9, 2017 (UTC)

No I didn't. This code, though just my speculation: lore <span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 14:38, November 9, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Area names
Thanks, I’ve been planning to rename them, just surprised to see the “new” name pages already exist when I do, somebody created them just didn’t make the move yet. To me, given those areas have no official names, and we already have the standardized (and well named) made names long time ago as seen in Dudleyville, BGT/EET maps, World Map page’s current BGEE map, I feel the need to unify them.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 11:06, November 13, 2017 (UTC)

EE still haven’t named them, the BGEE map on World Map page is fan made, supposed to be based on dudleyville, IESDP names. By renaming we finally have the synchronized names acrossed the sites.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 13:46, November 13, 2017 (UTC)

Help on IB horizontal layout
Hi there, I just created IB test and horizontally laid some fields to save space, but I encountered a problem that some have two lines which looks ugly, try to fill the fields on that IB and you’ll see what I mean, do you have some solutions to it?

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 15:05, November 13, 2017 (UTC)

I shortened Breath to Brth which seems to be a legit abb, but the ideal situation is to use its full name, especially for Slashing, Crushing etc that have been made to Slash, Crush... don't make much sense, to be honest. Tried, didn't seem to work :-(

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 11:58, November 14, 2017 (UTC)



The Dex, Con, Wis and Cha have two lines, ugly...

And yes, also the 18/100 looks like 18/10

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;♕&#9817; 12:02, November 14, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Walkthrough?
That’d well be :-) Your expansions to that page literally walk the readers through that level  :D.

What’s your opinion, for me, I usually consider strategies, hints, tricks & exploits as gameplay instead of walkthourgh which is for everyone.

<span style=" font-family:'Matura MT Script Capitals', serif; font-size:126%">Islandking&#9812;&#9813;&#9817; 03:04, November 16, 2017 (UTC)