Talk:Bard/@comment-64.237.75.135-20140820161347/@comment-8.33.16.141-20170114163736

Getting Imrpoved Bard song near the end of SoA/Beginning of ToB is hardly too "late...to really make a difference." They aren't totally useless either, as magic is always helpful and the largest redeeming factor of a bard. HLAs also give them Spike/Exploding/Time Trap and UAI just like a thief, so they become even more eclectic at high level.

+4 hit/damage/AC, immunity to fear, confusion, stun and normal weapons with 5% magic resistance is a very significant bonus for your party and sorta of a catch-all buff for any tough fight, which are abundant in ToB. The bard themselves gets +10 AC and 10% MR. And don't forget that a Blade still makes a very effective tank even in ToB where everything hits everybody, as -25 AC (theoretical, the display caps at -24) is nothing for a blade to achieve with Improved Bard Song even naked with just a spirit armor spell, and can further boost their survivability with every important combat protection that a mage gets. Not even fighter/mages can boast such high AC in combination with magic.

Let's not beat around the bush here: bards really do kind of suck, compared to the classes they emulate. Especially so in mid-level range throughout SoA. Thieves can do more with their abilites than pickpocket and lay traps immediately without HLAs. Fighters wear better armor, have way better HP and THAC0 and get bonus attacks. Mages have more spell slots and reach the top level spells. A Fighter/Mage or Fighter/Mage/Thief is better at combining the powers of the classes and tougher to boot, etc.

But bards do have a niche. In BG1, where archery is great and all characters are initially weak, chain armor/Armor spell helps be more survivable than a normal thief, and they can use longbows or heavy crossbows unlike them, making them slightly better at ranged combat assuming both have 18 DEX. Even a Mage/Thief cannot achieve the slightly better AC of chain or use the larger ranged weapons.

In BG1 again, they level fast like a thief but gain magic like a wizard. With their better fighting ability than a mage and more surviviability without magic, they are more like mage/thieves with more HP in this regard.

Their faster leveling also means their caster level will increase quicker, powering up spells like Magic Missile and Skull Trap earlier than a mage in BG2. THis is little reason to take them in the early stage of SoA, but near the end of SoA they'll be handily pulling away from Mages in level and have more powerful Skull Traps, Flame Arrows, etc. And then they start gaining those HLAs. Before that, they kind of suck, so one of the kits is needed to help them out. By one of the kits, I mean Blade. There's never any reason to not take Blade in SoA. Pickpocket sucks and potions of mastery thievery are everywhere anyway if you wanted to. better to improve the bard's fighting ability as much as possible and try to make a weak F/M out of them. Blades at the very least make great tanks/lures with defensive magic and the Defensive Spin ability.

In ToB a bard is worth having for the Improved Bard Song and Spike Traps alone for a brain dead player, but they can also function a utility caster for spells like Haste/Remove Fear/Identify. They still maintain the ability to do some good damage with spells like Skull Trap too, if you want to do that instead. When you really start getting into powerful item/ability combinations, UAI and TIme Trap makes bards beastly in combat as well. Blades can reach 5 attacks unhasted with Belm+Kundane/Scarlet Ninja-to, buff themselves with Offensive Spin and Tensor's for more damage, then autohit enemies lured into a time trap. Or they can just stack AC through Spirit Armor/Defensive Spin/Improved Bard Song+gear and use combat and spells protections to become basically unkillable.

The point is, Bards combine a magic-using class with a rogue. Rogues are already insane because of their HLAs, but you should NEVER underestimate the power of a magic-using class, especially in combination with something. I mean, they wouldn't be my first choice and require a lot of game knowledge to use well, but they are hardly as weak/useless as even I used to think they were, and how you uses them, surprisingly not the worst class in any of the three stages of the game. That distinction belongs to single classed druids :P